Trackhawk fuel pumps vs E85 mods/performance - Jeep TrackHawk Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 08-12-2019, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Trackhawk fuel pumps vs E85 mods/performance

I would like to discuss fuel pump requirements for Trackhawks that have been modified to use E85. Assume that the build has upper and lower pulleys (~18 psi of boost), ID1300 fuel injectors and all other necessary mods as required for proper use of E85.



It is my understanding the dual fuel pumps in Trackhawks (TH) are the same fuel pumps installed in the high horsepower Dodge Redeye and Demon. They each produce 450lph for a total of 900lph. (If this is wrong, please correct my statement.) I also understand that E85 performance packages (e.g. Livernois 1025S) available to us produce around 850 whp and use the stock fuel pumps safely. I also saw a post that +1000Hp TH's are using the stock TH fuel pumps.


At what point should a build consider switching, for example, to a 3 pump system? I personally would like to get close to the 800Hp range on a properly built TH and need to know if new fuel pumps are required. Thanks for any feedback.
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post #2 of 37 Old 08-12-2019, 02:54 PM
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If you add nitrous, you’ll need more fuel.
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post #3 of 37 Old 08-12-2019, 04:09 PM
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We are told and it is proven that the 800 hp mark no pump is needed.
if you are going over that like a S1200 I would simply ask the tuner. Always ask the tuner, we need posts like for knowledge and keeps the form exciting but bottom line trust the tuner and do what they say
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post #4 of 37 Old 08-12-2019, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Lil Hemi View Post
If you add nitrous, you’ll need more fuel.
No nitrous to be added.
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post #5 of 37 Old 08-12-2019, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ROCKETW19 View Post
We are told and it is proven that the 800 hp mark no pump is needed.
if you are going over that like a S1200 I would simply ask the tuner. Always ask the tuner, we need posts like for knowledge and keeps the form exciting but bottom line trust the tuner and do what they say

I agree, ask the tuner but do not know what the final horsepower numbers will be so really do not know if new pumps are required. I don't want to spend the money if not necessary so am trying to determine the algorithm leading up to that decision. Appreciate the response.
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post #6 of 37 Old 08-12-2019, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DarthCharger View Post
I agree, ask the tuner but do not know what the final horsepower numbers will be so really do not know if new pumps are required. I don't want to spend the money if not necessary so am trying to determine the algorithm leading up to that decision. Appreciate the response.
I have all this S1025 package with CAI and E85 tune theres a ton of other guys running the same and none need the pump. I have not stuck mine on dyno but id say 830hp I get this number from seeing what other say.
are you doing even more? I was gonna add ported snout and TB and still wouldnt need pump. just to give you idea.

what exactly are you going to run?
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post #7 of 37 Old 08-12-2019, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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No not higher than the 1025S package horsepower. My dyno awhp is 720 on 93 octane but want to switch to E85. The Sunoco stations here in Houston have true E85 according to my test kit analysis. My bucket list goal is to have a ligit 10 second Orca! At present run 10.9-11.0X depending on DA. Want to run at All Out Live September 13 at Houston Raceway for kicks.
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post #8 of 37 Old 08-13-2019, 04:05 AM
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Energy density in E85 is way less than E0 (i.e. 93-100 octane "pump gas") so it takes a lot more pump to run E85 than E0 (a rough number is 1.5 gal of E85 has the same energy density of 1 gallon of E0). Don't look at the HP in isolation to make a decision, a 1000hp E85 build is going to require more fuel flow (and thus injectors, pumps, etc.) than a 1000hp E0 build

On any multi-pump setup make sure you understand the failure mode and how the PCM/tune reacts. Many an engine has come apart because one pump of a multi-pump setup died but the other pump(s) stayed working grenading the engine as it went super-lean. If a vendor is selling a "multi-pump drop in kit" ask them how they protect against single pump failures at high flow rates.
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post #9 of 37 Old 08-13-2019, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Energy density in E85 is way less than E0 (i.e. 93-100 octane "pump gas") so it takes a lot more pump to run E85 than E0 (a rough number is 1.5 gal of E85 has the same energy density of 1 gallon of E0). Don't look at the HP in isolation to make a decision, a 1000hp E85 build is going to require more fuel flow (and thus injectors, pumps, etc.) than a 1000hp E0 build

On any multi-pump setup make sure you understand the failure mode and how the PCM/tune reacts. Many an engine has come apart because one pump of a multi-pump setup died but the other pump(s) stayed working grenading the engine as it went super-lean. If a vendor is selling a "multi-pump drop in kit" ask them how they protect against single pump failures at high flow rates.
Thanks for your interesting comments. It is my understanding that about 35% more E85 is needed to produce the same level of performance as 1 gallon of 93 octane and is likely the reason 1300cc/min are required to prevent high duty cycles.

Good point regarding the failure rate of a triple pump system but is a statistics that is not often discussed by tuners and on forums. Would be great if folks on the forum discussed this potential issue if it exists with the Trackhawk pumps. It appears that folks with the 1025S package have been ok with these pumps. I would think that the same would be true of the dual pump configuration currently in the Trackhawk. Does anyone know if one of the two dual fuel pumps in Trackhawks, Redeye or Demons have failed? Also, can someone verify the fuel flow rate of the Trackhawk fuel pumps? Thanks for the discussion.
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post #10 of 37 Old 08-13-2019, 11:48 AM
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The stock trackhawk pumps are dual 430LPH. What we notice was that our S1150 package is the highest you can go on stock pump without a boost a pump. Our S1150 puts down 955hp and 877tq to the wheels
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