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Discussion Starter #81
So today I get an email from some Livernois auto-generated nonsense saying they’d solved my request. I’m guessing they finally got around to checking the inbox for the “contact us” link. My god they are exceptionally sh*tty at understanding the concept of email. I’m gonna get on Amazon and see if they have one of those yellow books on the subject. Remember those “email for the mentally challenged “ series of books?
 
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Lil Hemi, I wanted to take the time to post as I think maybe some things got lost in translation, and want to better understand the situation.

This is what I know from looking into this.

We had an employee, who is no longer with us, definitely over promise on how quick the laptop could be to you. not crazily so, but definitely a little optimistic based on the then currently outlay of backlog.

but this is where the real delays came from.

Firstly, we had about 4 customers in front of you at the time of ordering. this is partly due to us adding a second laptop into the mix to help out with delays. The problem here is the first customer handled theirs quickly, but the next customer was in Canada, and even though they knew when it was going to be delivered, decided to leave on a trip the day of delivery without communicating to us. So it sat, for 3 weeks without anyone able to do anything with it since he was not home to retrieve it. This was complicated by the fact that we cannot initiate a shipment from Canada to the US. So we were completely at the customers mercy to get the laptop back and moving forward. As such between getting through customs into canada, finally getting the customer to ship back from canada, it was well over a month for one stop. Typically Canada adds about 1 week having to go into the country, and we try to coordinate multiple customers in a certain country to get them situated all at the same time.

The perfect storm aspect of this is the second (or first technically) Laptop was already in Australia before having to go to Canada, so it was unavailable to help alleviate the bottleneck that had formed. The real fun part of that? That laptop lived in Australia for over 3 (honestly, maybe almost 4) months and just got back Monday as the customer that originally ordered it kept it that whole time. So we've been operating with 1 laptop for that entire time, essentially putting us right back to square 1 like we were last year.

Now, as far as talk of refund. Here is the though part on our end. If we are getting customers handled within 24 hours typically, what more can we do? While I may personally feel it's justified to ask a customer that held up the momentum to pay for another customer's delay, in 2019 there are far too few of customers that would ever offer to do that, and honestly, the ones that would, likely wouldn't be the hold up in the first place. But how do you refund a service that you actually provided? As far as I am aware, there are zero issues with what we provided, and it's all around the when.

I don't know the specifics on what you asked for, but if you asked for a full refund, and nothing else, how are we supposed to oblige that? What can we do as a company if 1 customer delays a dozen and keeps the hardware? We couldn't have known that up front, and we couldn't have prevented it.

Rest assured no one will be happier than us when the days of the laptop are behind us. When everyone is on the same page, it works great, but the minute someone doesn't think about the next customer in line, it's a disaster. And those days are hopefully coming soon as we are close to releasing trans tuning via our MyCalibrator Touch tuner for these as well, so far, far easier to make everything happen in a quick fashion as you will have your own device for life.
 
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Well, in regards to email and responding, we do indeed, and the employees email was disabled and you should have gotten a bounceback. Why weren't you? I am not certain, but Gmail should have returned it as undelivered to that address and forward it to the main box. We put in an inquiry into this on gsuite, but we may not know for awhile.

Now, with that said, Once you did send a message to us in the main box you got a response within the normal 1-2 business day timeline, and started a dialog on the phone with one of our staff members. While it's unfortunate that you never got a bounceback alert, no one was avoiding you and we responded and got the laptop handled within 3 days of the email being sent to us.
 

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I have said this before and I believe it’s a reasonable idea that might save you guys from future “hostage” type situations that seem to upset the customers... bill the TCM tune when you actually ship the laptop.

Be up front of course and let the customer know the laptop should arrive in 1-20 weeks due to circumstances beyond your control ... ie only having 2 laptops/international customer vacations/fired employees/google failures/etc/everyone and anyone elses fault besides Livernoise


This is assuming you choose to stick with the broken model of tcm laptop tuning where you are putting the entire timely functionality of your system in the hands of unknown customers, which is such an excellent idea in the first place.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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I have said this before and I believe it’s a reasonable idea that might save you guys from future “hostage” type situations that seem to upset the customers... bill the TCM tune when you actually ship the laptop.

Be up front of course and let the customer know the laptop should arrive in 1-20 weeks due to circumstances beyond your control ... ie only having 2 laptops/international customer vacations/fired employees/google failures/etc/everyone and anyone elses fault besides Livernoise


This is assuming you choose to stick with the broken model of tcm laptop tuning where you are putting the entire timely functionality of your system in the hands of unknown customers, which is such an excellent idea in the first place.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't mind the idea, and we always listen to customer feedback. That's where the second laptop came from in the first place. Was it more cost and expense to duplicate the hardware, sure, but we always want to help customers out if we can. I hate to move to a deposit method where we take a security deposit, but it might be the other approach. At least internationally.

But the laptop method has an expiration date in the future, which we hope is sooner rather than later. We've been testing our MyCalibrator Touch Tuner for TCM for a few months and hope to make the official launch very, very soon.

We legitimately don't know why it seems like we get a group of customers that are fantastic at keeping the momentum going, and then 2-3 in a row that just put everything to a standstill. The craziest thing is sometimes it's those that have protested the loudest about the delays that hold it after the tuning is done the longest.

and as far as being up front, you won't find anyone more in support of that than myself. I am always a "rip off the bandaid" type of approach when it comes to things like this. Let them know some of the crazy situations upfront.
 

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Discussion Starter #87 (Edited)
Doesn’t seem like you’re reading the step by step account of everything. You can blame the sales guy and you can blame the email but even AFTER that you still made me wait in line AND forgot about me AGAIN and THEN made me wait in line AGAIN. Soooooo, like I mentioned multiple times through this thread, I’m not trying to bash Livernois but this is an accurate account of my experience with them. And you don’t even bother to apologize, it’s explanations and excuses. Read through Borla’s response and note the glaring differences in responses. Also, regarding the response from the contact us, well you’re misinformed there as well. After multiple unanswered attempts at that, I picked up the phone and called and that’s what finally got the ball moving. I got an automated response from the contact us about a month after sending.

By comparison, I also had an issue with Borla. I also did a post about them. The way in which the matter was and continues to be handled is night and day from my experience with Livernois.
Here is the response I got from Borla within 24 hours of my very first attempt to contact them:

Thank you for choosing to use our exhaust, I am very sorry to see that you continue to receive tips with defects. We have certainly dropped the ball here and I would like to try to make this right. First, I just had a discussion with our factory in Tennessee where these tips are made and I am sure the next set mailed out will be made correctly and arrive without damage. Second, I would like to reimburse you in full for the price you paid for these tips. It should not take 4 tries to send you a set of tips for your Borla system. Please just send me a copy of your invoice showing what you paid and I will have a check mailed to you.


The ship has sailed on salvaging your relationship with me Livernois. I feel like I gave you more than enough opportunities to do something but don’t let this be a total loss. Take what’s been said here in this thread and use it to improve your business and client relationships. Make the necessary changes that will get your email sorted out and take the time to properly train your employees to handle situations like these in a timely matter so that it doesn’t affect your reputation. Good luck 👍🏻
 
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What I am looking at is a ticket created at 6:40 PM September 10th (after close of business), and Dave responding to you September 12th at 9:35am that he will be calling you. You had the Laptop by 11am September 13th, and were tuned by noon on September 14th.

So from everything I can see he got to you from the general email box fairly quickly made certain you had the laptop the very next day after speaking on the phone.

Am I disappointed in everything and even sorry for the situation, yes, but did we rectify it in a timely manner after you contacted us? Also yes.
 

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Discussion Starter #89 (Edited)
Dave was 100% unaware of any emails from me at the time of my first call. Emails were 10/9 and 10/10 with my phone call on 10/11 when Dave said he hadn’t received any emails and thought that was odd because he was supposed to get those emails.


I got the laptop soon after speaking to Dave but it’s not like this was a favor, I’d been passed over several times. Then, as previously stated I called Dave earlyish on a friday, like 11am central and let him know I was ready to go. Had it all wired in, just needed Livernois. I was told the tuner would be with me in a few hours (despite having already been waiting for months). I waited on a Friday (cancelling my plans) until around 10pm when I finally realized that I’d been forgotten about AGAIN. I sent Dave an email expressing my disappointment and requesting a refund (on the trans tune only). I had to make a call on Saturday and was again told I’d have to wait in line and after several hours, the trans tune was finally complete. It took less than 30 minutes start to finish. I sent the laptop out the next day instead of holding onto it until I got a response about a refund, which you guys dragged out for two weeks.

If you don’t see GLARING problems with multiple aspects of how Livernois handled this matter then I just cannot help you.

Like stated several times before, I don’t think Livernois acted maliciously, I just think it’s a poorly organized/run operation and if my experience was so out of the ordinary as to what a client normally experiences then why not act like it? To me, the response I received is a giant red flag. This isn’t even the first time you guys have used the sales guy excuse, I saw the same exact thing happen when Scott left. People complaining that emails weren’t getting responded to, extreme delays (lies) about delivery times. So how do you explain having the same exact problems, two sales guys in a row? It implies that no changes were made to fix these issues.

In the end Livernois did eventually tune my transmission (as stated previously if you read the entire thread)
 

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holy moley...
i have to agree with lil hemi- perfect gentleman, thru the entire process..
1 or 2 laptops..whatever..get a deposit from the customer, to ensure its timely return..
sat on a customers door step for a month or whatever b/s excuse??..wow..i wouldn't let you guys tune a big wheel...thats just me..
and yes, i recall them blaming a since gone employee before..gmafb..my 2 cents
 

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Livernois stuck in old technology? Why not send the software to the customer to be used on their laptops? If they don't want to, then have 5,10,15 laptops available. All I see is plenty of excuses from Livernois. From the salesman quit, to other customers kept the laptops to long. Where is the accountability from Livernois? Remember, excuses are like assholes, every one has them.
 

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Discussion Starter #92
I’m pretty sure they do it like this to protect their IP. After you connect their laptop to your network, they take control over the laptop and the screen blacks out while they do the TCM tune.
 

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I’m pretty sure they do it like this to protect their IP. After you connect their laptop to your network, they take control over the laptop and the screen blacks out while they do the TCM tune.
Sounds like they are using something simple like Teamviewer. Why not, use the customers laptop and then they can take that screen over? When they are complete, they can deinstall the software?
 

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Discussion Starter #94
Idk man, I’m no computer whiz for sure. They’re very aware of the drawbacks of this methodology by this point.

If Livernois would like to keep this discussion going, will the Livernois representative identify themselves? I dealt with Dave Ameduri and he blamed it on his boss who decided not to compensate me.

I need to look at my email time/date stamps if we are going to keep arguing the fine points about this but the chronology of this thread is accurate. I’m happy to keep discussing this as I have plenty of documentation to support my side of the story but I don’t think you are doing Livernois any good by continuing to argue with your clients that you’ve wronged when there is so much evidence to support my point of view. I think you would’ve been a lot better off to simply acknowledge you dropped the ball repeatedly, apologize and then do something (ANYTHING) to make it up to the client. The refund wouldn’t have fixed anything you guys did but it wouldn’t been a sign to me that you actually do care about something other than that $$$$$. Now we are at the point of no repairing this relationship and that is caused 100% by the way the situation was handled AFTER the delays and email nonsense. Then you come on here to argue and can’t be bothered to even read the thread first.......🙄 this only goes to further support my claims of sh*tty service. Good luck Livernois, I know you can do better than this.
 

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I know of a local guy who went the Livernois route and had all the parts installed by a local shop. I recall him getting a laptop for the trans tuning in a fast time frame, all while I would read that you still had not got your deal done with them. I my opinion Livernois screwed up this process pretty bad. They can make any excuse they want. At the end of the day they want to use old technology, like supplying a shop laptop is their choice. But also their responsibility to have a backup process in place to take care of customers who spend their hard earned money going with their product. In this case, they should of did whatever they could to make it right for you. A refund on the cost of the trans file is nothing. In in my experience, the tune they sent you is pretty straight forward for all their tune packages. No additional costs incurred.
 

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Lil Hemi, I wanted to take the time to post as I think maybe some things got lost in translation, and want to better understand the situation.

This is what I know from looking into this.

We had an employee, who is no longer with us, definitely over promise on how quick the laptop could be to you. not crazily so, but definitely a little optimistic based on the then currently outlay of backlog.

but this is where the real delays came from.

Firstly, we had about 4 customers in front of you at the time of ordering. this is partly due to us adding a second laptop into the mix to help out with delays. The problem here is the first customer handled theirs quickly, but the next customer was in Canada, and even though they knew when it was going to be delivered, decided to leave on a trip the day of delivery without communicating to us. So it sat, for 3 weeks without anyone able to do anything with it since he was not home to retrieve it. This was complicated by the fact that we cannot initiate a shipment from Canada to the US. So we were completely at the customers mercy to get the laptop back and moving forward. As such between getting through customs into canada, finally getting the customer to ship back from canada, it was well over a month for one stop. Typically Canada adds about 1 week having to go into the country, and we try to coordinate multiple customers in a certain country to get them situated all at the same time.

The perfect storm aspect of this is the second (or first technically) Laptop was already in Australia before having to go to Canada, so it was unavailable to help alleviate the bottleneck that had formed. The real fun part of that? That laptop lived in Australia for over 3 (honestly, maybe almost 4) months and just got back Monday as the customer that originally ordered it kept it that whole time. So we've been operating with 1 laptop for that entire time, essentially putting us right back to square 1 like we were last year.

Now, as far as talk of refund. Here is the though part on our end. If we are getting customers handled within 24 hours typically, what more can we do? While I may personally feel it's justified to ask a customer that held up the momentum to pay for another customer's delay, in 2019 there are far too few of customers that would ever offer to do that, and honestly, the ones that would, likely wouldn't be the hold up in the first place. But how do you refund a service that you actually provided? As far as I am aware, there are zero issues with what we provided, and it's all around the when.

I don't know the specifics on what you asked for, but if you asked for a full refund, and nothing else, how are we supposed to oblige that? What can we do as a company if 1 customer delays a dozen and keeps the hardware? We couldn't have known that up front, and we couldn't have prevented it.

Rest assured no one will be happier than us when the days of the laptop are behind us. When everyone is on the same page, it works great, but the minute someone doesn't think about the next customer in line, it's a disaster. And those days are hopefully coming soon as we are close to releasing trans tuning via our MyCalibrator Touch tuner for these as well, so far, far easier to make everything happen in a quick fashion as you will have your own device for life.
Humm, I had the same story told to me before lil hemi even ordered his S1025. I was the on that talked him into it after my trans was already tuned. I was told the same story about Canada holding the lap top up. so I got it after that how was it sent again after me? funny the same thing happened 2 times. Scott straight up lied to me but hes gone and I get it.

IMO the main problem was you had a employee post here on this board to contact him thru PM if anyone needs anything he will handle it. I had a trans issue (that is still not fixed) and messaged here to him like I was told. we went round and round going no where I was pissed like lil hemi is now. I started a thread just like this but didnt name anyone.
in that time I got a message from a member here giving me Andys contact. after emailing Andy everything was lighting fast. I still have my issue but at least he explained why. I actual emailed Andy the other day asking a question and super fast reply and spot on info. If I was not given Andys contact info My issue would still be going on also.
the problem is communication the guy that was here if its you or who ever I dont know he sucked asss. bad thing is you need Andy for tuning but he should be your customer support guy hes on point. hire someone to reply to emails and take phone calls all day that would prob help?
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Threw a fuel pump code at speed and wot the other day and it melted 4 spark plugs. Apparently this has happened before with Livernois tuned THs. Full tank of fuel, doing 160 at the time, was at and had been at WOT for a solid thirty seconds prior to code and subsequent limp mode.

Livernois, have you seen this on your vehicles before?
 

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Make sure its very clear you had a 100% full tank. thats the first excuse you will get so lets skip that one now. I know 2 from them that this or worse happened to. but they are also not the only ones
 

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Threw a fuel pump code at speed and wot the other day and it melted 4 spark plugs. Apparently this has happened before with Livernois tuned THs. Full tank of fuel, doing 160 at the time, was at and had been at WOT for a solid thirty seconds prior to code and subsequent limp mode.

Livernois, have you seen this on your vehicles before?
Sorry to hear about this. Nobody like to see an injured car, hope you get it sorted quickly.

Is there any ‘snapshot’ data in the PCM that can be reviewed ?

Which cylinders were affected? Do the rest of the plugs look ok? Have you scoped the chambers where those melted?
 

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Discussion Starter #100
Livernois keeps their stuff from being seen, unlike hpp or diablo. I don’t know how to datalog their stuff

Idk the actual cylinder numbers but both were on the driver side second from the front and the one at the rear both plugs on each of those cylinders. Haven’t scoped it, was actually driving fine until u got on it hard. Plugs will be here Saturday
 
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