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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I’m really wanting to do something like the S975 or S1025, but I’m not risking the warranty on this first year production vehicle. So my thought is pick up a second PCM and send that on in for mod keeping the stock one stock. If I ever needed to put it back to stock, I have the stock PCM in adulterated.

Thoughts???

Can one purchase a second PCM from the dealer or would you have to find a salvage one? Any idea on cost?
 

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Unfortunately, they can tell when a PCM has been modified. If you reflash to original, they can still pick up in that it’s been changed based on time/date stamp by my understanding.
 

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you can get a new spare for $400 shipped. Reading your stock image you need some specialized tools and software. Obviously HPT but some others are more of an investment. BitBox, KTAG, Dimsport to name a few. You will need some gateway bypass if you want to read in the car. Otherwise you can pull the ecu out and read it in a bench with OBD to wire adapter you can DIY or purchase.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Unfortunately, they can tell when a PCM has been modified. If you reflash to original, they can still pick up in that it’s been changed based on time/date stamp by my understanding.
Right, so if you have two physical PCMs, swap out your stock one (put it in a box) and roll with your modded PCM. If you have a warranty issue, swap PCMs by installing your stock one back in the car and returning everything else to stock. Get your warranty issue resolved then re-mod the car. Your stock PCM would be untouched other than taken in and out of the car.

Is there something else I’m missing? Is there another way they could tell you had a second PCM at one point?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
you can get a new spare for $400 shipped. Reading your stock image you need some specialized tools and software. Obviously HPT but some others are more of an investment. BitBox, KTAG, Dimsport to name a few. You will need some gateway bypass if you want to read in the car. Otherwise you can pull the ecu out and read it in a bench with OBD to wire adapter you can DIY or purchase.
My plan would be two pick up a spare and send the spare to Livernois for them to mod. Keep my stock unchanged (except if I needed to put it back in for a warranty issue).

Would this work?
 

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This sounds like really wishful thinking. I’d be the first one to mod the sh|t out of my TH if there was an easy work around with keeping the warranty intact.
 

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My plan would be two pick up a spare and send the spare to Livernois for them to mod. Keep my stock unchanged (except if I needed to put it back in for a warranty issue).

Would this work?
Yes that will work, I did that to my 15’ SRT got a spare unlocked PCM from Diablo with the Trinity tuner and any time I had to go to the dealer I would swap the Diablo PCM back for the stock one and I just now did the same for my TrackHawk, bought the Diablo unlocked PCM with the intune I3.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes that will work, I did that to my 15’ SRT got a spare unlocked PCM from Diablo with the Trinity tuner and any time I had to go to the dealer I would swap the Diablo PCM back for the stock one and I just now did the same for my TrackHawk, bought the Diablo unlocked PCM with the intune I3.
Excellent! I do see that on their website ($800). Small price to pay to keep the warranty in tact.

I’d be new to tuning a PCM so would prefer to have a shop set it up. But could you share more about your mods and success with Diablo? Thanks!
 

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Hellhawked, don’t believe everything you read on these forums, especially with your warranty on the line. Look more into this. It is not as simple as swapping pcm’s when there is an issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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So I’m really wanting to do something like the S975 or S1025, but I’m not risking the warranty on this first year production vehicle. So my thought is pick up a second PCM and send that on in for mod keeping the stock one stock. If I ever needed to put it back to stock, I have the stock PCM in adulterated.

<snip>

Thoughts???

Can one purchase a second PCM from the dealer or would you have to find a salvage one? Any idea on cost?
Are you thinking of fully uninstalling the 975 or 1025 package (i.e. remove the pullies, put the stock injectors back in, etc.) for warranty work? Just putting the stock PCM won't work with the larger injectors in the 975 or 1025 package, and either the vehicle will barely run or come in rolling black smoke behind it like a diesel (not to mention likely wrecking the cats if its driven any amount due to over fueling). If you stick with something more modest (no injector swap) then you're in better shape, however the odometer is another place where you might get tripped up by the dealer (PCM value doesn't match the instrument cluster value). You'd also need to get the PCM registered to the vehicle with the FCA DRB tool (not sure if the SKIM (security module) needs to be re-synced to the PCM with the DRB each time you change PCMs, or just once per PCM)...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Are you thinking of fully uninstalling the 975 or 1025 package (i.e. remove the pullies, put the stock injectors back in, etc.) for warranty work? Just putting the stock PCM won't work with the larger injectors in the 975 or 1025 package, and either the vehicle will barely run or come in rolling black smoke behind it like a diesel (not to mention likely wrecking the cats if its driven any amount due to over fueling). If you stick with something more modest (no injector swap) then you're in better shape, however the odometer is another place where you might get tripped up by the dealer (PCM value doesn't match the instrument cluster value). You'd also need to get the PCM registered to the vehicle with the FCA DRB tool (not sure if the SKIM (security module) needs to be re-synced to the PCM with the DRB each time you change PCMs, or just once per PCM)...
Yes, I’m not talking about small warranty issues. I’m talking catastrophic failures. Nuked trans case, thrown rod, seized blower.... yes for these I would return everything to stock.

So the gauge cluster does not get its mileage data from the PCM? Ok learning here... That is why I posted this thread. Other than mileage being off. Anything else that could raise suspicion? Other than mileage being off, they would still have to prove you did something that caused a failure for them to not honor the warranty. It could get ugly but they couldn’t just say “mileage doesn’t match you’re, **** out of luck buddy....”
 

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Also keep in mind that the PCM is only one of the "CMs" on the vehicle. Things like the TCM (transmission control module) stores data and has codes just like the PCM, and looking at the data in comparison to that in a recently "swapped in" PCM will show inconsistencies and raise flags if FCA is looking for them.

Best bet is a mods friendly dealership so you don't get caught in the "its modded so no warranty" for everything, a tuner that is willing to stand behind their work (just make sure you understand what the tuner warranty covers and what it doesn't) and some rainy day money to fix it when it breaks
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Are you thinking of fully uninstalling the 975 or 1025 package (i.e. remove the pullies, put the stock injectors back in, etc.) for warranty work? Just putting the stock PCM won't work with the larger injectors in the 975 or 1025 package, and either the vehicle will barely run or come in rolling black smoke behind it like a diesel (not to mention likely wrecking the cats if its driven any amount due to over fueling). If you stick with something more modest (no injector swap) then you're in better shape, however the odometer is another place where you might get tripped up by the dealer (PCM value doesn't match the instrument cluster value). You'd also need to get the PCM registered to the vehicle with the FCA DRB tool (not sure if the SKIM (security module) needs to be re-synced to the PCM with the DRB each time you change PCMs, or just once per PCM)...
Also keep in mind that the PCM is only one of the "CMs" on the vehicle. Things like the TCM (transmission control module) stores data and has codes just like the PCM, and looking at the data in comparison to that in a recently "swapped in" PCM will show inconsistencies and raise flags if FCA is looking for them.

Best bet is a mods friendly dealership so you don't get caught in the "its modded so no warranty" for everything, a tuner that is willing to stand behind their work (just make sure you understand what the tuner warranty covers and what it doesn't) and some rainy day money to fix it when it breaks
That’s probably the best advice. I’m just searching for a loophole. I don’t know any service department folks yet. When I go in for my first free oil change I’ll try to get a feel for the “coolness” of the team.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The other thing I just thought of is Uconnect. That is like big brother. They could probably tell something is up when all of the sudden Uconnect PCM data refreshes/changes and then mysteriously changes again before you bring it in. Any way to opt out of Uconnect? I feel like even if you did they are still watching.
 

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Excellent! I do see that on their website ($800). Small price to pay to keep the warranty in tact.

I’d be new to tuning a PCM so would prefer to have a shop set it up. But could you share more about your mods and success with Diablo? Thanks!
In my case I have a good relation with my dealer, my 15’ SRT has 97k miles on her and has been to the dealer several times in the 3 yrs for minor issues & never have I had had an issue or questions by my dealer during my warranty period (5 yrs or 75k miles) cause I always went in with my stock PCM. I don’t have heavy mods on my SRT, catch can, 180* thermostat and I got the Diablo PCM only to adjust my fan settings, AFE headers and Momemtum CAI, Racing Brakes floating disc brakes & pads. On my Trackhawk with 100 miles on her I put in the 180* thermostat and got the Diablo PCM so I can adjust the fan settigs, installed a UPR catch can. I now have had the TrackHawk for a month and have logged 1900 miles on her and have been to the dealer once, with 300 miles on her, for a P0013 code (VVT valve) which involves removing the supercharger to gain access to the VVT valve, turned out to be a pin in the connector not making proper contact, and I went in to the dealer with the stock PCM, no issues at all. Hope this helps, sorry for the long post.
 
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Yes, I’m not talking about small warranty issues. I’m talking catastrophic failures. Nuked trans case, thrown rod, seized blower.... yes for these I would return everything to stock.

So the gauge cluster does not get its mileage data from the PCM? Ok learning here... That is why I posted this thread. Other than mileage being off. Anything else that could raise suspicion? Other than mileage being off, they would still have to prove you did something that caused a failure for them to not honor the warranty. It could get ugly but they couldn’t just say “mileage doesn’t match you’re, **** out of luck buddy....”
The hole may get deeper than it seems at first to get it "back to stock". Things like a spare crankshaft as the pinning holes will be obvious if they're looking. Likewise depending on how badly things came apart in the catastrophic failure trying to get stock parts back on may be hard or raise other suspicions (i.e. parts are too unused/undamaged, too clean, etc.)

FCA will be all over the "CMs" on a large failure looking for data on what happened, any codes stored in the CMs (or lack of codes due to a swap), and discrepancies between the CMs. They have tons of data on Hellcat failures, so this isn't their first rodeo where someone tried a PCM swap to cover up mods so they'll know what to look for.

The reality is that FCA can chose to not honor the warranty based on whatever "evidence" they find. Sometimes the "evidence" is even wrong. But it doesn't matter, they say "no warranty for you", then its on you to argue to get it covered. Waste time arguing, hire a lawyer, take them to court, spend a much of money all while the Jeep sits broken down and undriveable (depreciating and maybe soaking up loan payments).

Don't get me wrong I enjoy doing modified vehicles, but learned the hard way that doing anything towards the edge without a) other transportation and b) being ok with paying to fix some stuff if/when it breaks isn't fun no matter how fast it was before it broke...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You mod it,You blow it up and you want someone else to pay.I wouldn't want to have any business dealings with you.
I’m sorry that you don’t understand where myself and many others are coming from here. Let me try to break this down for you.

This is a brand new platform. Sure the GC and Hellcat have been around and proven, but not together. There are bound to be manufacturer defects or weakness that some or all THs have.

That being said, just because you mod something doesn’t mean that your mod is what caused it to break. There are dozens of S1025s on the streets without issue. Now say I get that kit and my transfer case takes a crap. My mod didn’t necessarily cause that failure. But with a S1025 install the dealer would say “the increased HP is what caused the failure” without batting an eye. But you and I know dozens of people with the kit without trans case failures.

You make it sound like I’m going to put a 300 shot on it, blow the motor, and then expect Jeep to fix it. NOT AT ALL what my intentions would be. I want a failsafe method to insure that I can warranty a manufacturer defect with some proven mods on the vehicle (or de-modded before brought in).

Thanks for character bias perspective though - and yes, I’m glad we are not doing business either.

Thanks for
 
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