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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im sure there are some cali customers who have done builds already. Im wondering either from the tuners or the customers about the shops you used, and if the 91 octane was able to hold any timing with 10 % OD and a 2.85 upper. as of now I'm thinking about the livernois 1025 for the flex fuel capacity.
 

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Im sure there are some cali customers who have done builds already. Im wondering either from the tuners or the customers about the shops you used, and if the 91 octane was able to hold any timing with 10 % OD and a 2.85 upper. as of now I'm thinking about the livernois 1025 for the flex fuel capacity.
Ill be right behind you. I still need wheels and rotors before I jump to motor. I also will be looking for a tuner. I have one of the best LS tuners around but zero ford guys anywhere near me and the jeep I will have to hunt for one. hopefully not as bad as ford.
i will prob jump straight to a Magnuson Supercharger. this way I can sell my stock unit to someone else and try to recoupe some cash. I know Whipple will prob make more power but I have had bad dealings with them tuning so I boycott the whole **** place.

please post up what you find and what you run. I have heard of Accelerated of something close to that. they are in Socal and are building fast hellcats and Demons but I have zero experience with them. I have not seen them say anything about a TrackHawk yet.
 

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You California guys have it made when it comes to climate but when it comes to octane and gas it sure is not the great state to be in.

With the 91 octane gas you are limited to a 3.05 pulley and the INW overdrive balancer. It will not live for long with a 2.85 upper and lower pulley combination on 91 octane gas.

Different solutions for our customers. I have had customers buy a second pulley that is set up for the S1025 package that way they have both the 3.05 pulley along with the 2.85 so when they want to go racing at the track they swap out the 2.85 pulley after they have run a couple tanks of E85 through it and then they go racing lay down the number they want then return home and swap out the pulley back to the 3.05 then you can run the 91 octane.

Or the other option is just to keep the 3.05 pulley on it all the time and you can run E85 or 91 or any combination as the TrackHawk has the ability to run flex fuel and self learns to put it in the correct mapping based on the amount of ethanol being burned.

Hope this helps
Sincerely
Scott
 

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You California guys have it made when it comes to climate but when it comes to octane and gas it sure is not the great state to be in.

With the 91 octane gas you are limited to a 3.05 pulley and the INW overdrive balancer. It will not live for long with a 2.85 upper and lower pulley combination on 91 octane gas.

Different solutions for our customers. I have had customers buy a second pulley that is set up for the S1025 package that way they have both the 3.05 pulley along with the 2.85 so when they want to go racing at the track they swap out the 2.85 pulley after they have run a couple tanks of E85 through it and then they go racing lay down the number they want then return home and swap out the pulley back to the 3.05 then you can run the 91 octane.

Or the other option is just to keep the 3.05 pulley on it all the time and you can run E85 or 91 or any combination as the TrackHawk has the ability to run flex fuel and self learns to put it in the correct mapping based on the amount of ethanol being burned.

Hope this helps
Sincerely
Scott
Yup E50 (mix of 91 and E85) is what most guys are doing here. well with LS motors at least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
why would they run more expensive, inconvenient and lower octane e50 mix when you have access to e85? I don't get that at all, do you know why they do?

e50 mix $3.13 gall ----octane 98

e85 $2.65 gall---octane 104
 

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why would they run more expensive, inconvenient and lower octane e50 mix when you have access to e85? I don't get that at all, do you know why they do?

e50 mix $3.13 gall ----octane 98

e85 $2.65 gall---octane 104
when you take e85 and mix it with 91 you end up with E50 or E70 I forget. So some people just say E50 instead of saying I mix 91 with E85
I have not even seen a E50 or anything other then e85 where I live. I have no idea why it cost more either I dont even look at gas prices to tell ya the truth. no I am not rich I just dont care I need it so i get it.
 

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I have a s1025 kit, and will be relocating to South Bay, CA soon from Iowa. I would like to keep my 2.85 pulley and just run e85 daily. Will this introduce unmanageable risk and/or additional wear and tear on the rig? I am most interested in responses from Livernois and individuals running this kit in Cali.
 

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I have a s1025 kit, and will be relocating to South Bay, CA soon from Iowa. I would like to keep my 2.85 pulley and just run e85 daily. Will this introduce unmanageable risk and/or additional wear and tear on the rig? I am most interested in responses from Livernois and individuals running this kit in Cali.
E85 is around most places in south bay (san jose area) but you are taking a chance getting stuck with the wrong gas. You have a flex tune I assume so if you drive it like a grandma you will be ok with wrong gas to make it somewhere. you just have to plan a lil more but should be fine. I have a gas app called gas buddy it tells me where all the E 85 stations are. Id def get something like that and just plan your trips.
My buddy runs same pulley hes fine. he also has 55 gallon drums of E85 at his shop. Me personally I am to lazy to think about how many miles I need to go before gas I run the 3.05 and hate running E85 for the simple fact it burns way to fast and I have to goto the station to many times. So for me its a convenient thing to use the bigger pulley if you dont care you will be fine.
 

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E85 is around most places in south bay (san jose area) but you are taking a chance getting stuck with the wrong gas. You have a flex tune I assume so if you drive it like a grandma you will be ok with wrong gas to make it somewhere. you just have to plan a lil more but should be fine. I have a gas app called gas buddy it tells me where all the E 85 stations are. Id def get something like that and just plan your trips.
My buddy runs same pulley hes fine. he also has 55 gallon drums of E85 at his shop. Me personally I am to lazy to think about how many miles I need to go before gas I run the 3.05 and hate running E85 for the simple fact it burns way to fast and I have to goto the station to many times. So for me its a convenient thing to use the bigger pulley if you dont care you will be fine.
@ROCKETW19 - I do have a flex fuel tune from Livernois, and I have already purchased a 5 gallon gas can that can bridge the gap when I'm venturing away from familiar areas known to have quality E85. I appreciate your reply, and it sound like we are on the same page. I am primarily interested in learning if there are adverse affects to running back-2-back tanks of E85. I believe "driving like a grandma" with this pulley should be sufficient if I had to run 91 temporarily. However, if people have other thoughts, I would like to hear them.
 

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@ROCKETW19 - I do have a flex fuel tune from Livernois, and I have already purchased a 5 gallon gas can that can bridge the gap when I'm venturing away from familiar areas known to have quality E85. I appreciate your reply, and it sound like we are on the same page. I am primarily interested in learning if there are adverse affects to running back-2-back tanks of E85. I believe "driving like a grandma" with this pulley should be sufficient if I had to run 91 temporarily. However, if people have other thoughts, I would like to hear them.
I would def add the additive like lucas if running e85 all the time. I assume you have ID injectors also? if so good they have a coating on them that resist corrosion. e85 has high moisture content. the lucas additive I forget the name but it help that.
Id change oil a bit sooner also if only running e85.(moisture content again)
that was just recommended to me by my builder. he has a few race cars that where in the 2 year old range and moisture did damage to both cars that run e85 all the time. we didnt get to much into it but Id bet because they sit a lot and didnt use the additive. he strongly recommended me to use it and change oil sooner.
 

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I would def add the additive like lucas if running e85 all the time. I assume you have ID injectors also? if so good they have a coating on them that resist corrosion. e85 has high moisture content. the lucas additive I forget the name but it help that.
Id change oil a bit sooner also if only running e85.(moisture content again)
that was just recommended to me by my builder. he has a few race cars that where in the 2 year old range and moisture did damage to both cars that run e85 all the time. we didnt get to much into it but Id bet because they sit a lot and didnt use the additive. he strongly recommended me to use it and change oil sooner.
@ROCKETW19 - This is quite helpful, and yes I have 1300cc ID injectors. Thanks.
 

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Update: I've successfully run the 10% lower, 2.85 upper with 1300cc injectors with PP supercharger snout, on E85 here in the Bay Area without issue for 60+ days. Car is strong around, 16-17lbs, dyno'd with Livernois @ 860awhp. I am interested in exploring the 2.65 upper. Pro's/cons with this pulley on E85? What psi/power can be achieved with this combination. Thanks in advance.
 

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Update: I've successfully run the 10% lower, 2.85 upper with 1300cc injectors with PP supercharger snout, on E85 here in the Bay Area without issue for 60+ days. Car is strong around, 16-17lbs, dyno'd with Livernois @ 860awhp. I am interested in exploring the 2.65 upper. Pro's/cons with this pulley on E85? What psi/power can be achieved with this combination. Thanks in advance.
Sorry I am not from Cali as you had mentioned/hoped for but I will try to help by sharing my experience.

As you likely know, the psi boost you achieve will be greatly affected by your elevation. With that said my 9% IW lower, 2.85 upper on the same LMS s1025 package (non ported snout) produces 17.5 psi summer and 18 psi in the cooler fall weather. Currently I am installing a Livernois CNC ported S/C snout (along with FI thermal spacers/blanket) and they fully expect me to see 18.5-19 psi in cool temps on the same 9%/2.85 pulley combo. Note: I also have an interchiller system already installed.

So with a ported snout already, you must be at a higher elevation than myself to only be getting 16-17 psi boost or running a set of headers and no cats (though unlikely in Cali).

I would think you would see 17-18 psi with a 2.75 upper and would recommend that personally as you will still be good fuel wise with ID1300 injectors and the stock dual fuel pumps on E85.

Swapping to a 2.65 upper I would expect you to be in the same 18-19 psi range I may be at and pushing the limits of your fuel supply running E85. I just installed a Kenny Bell dual Boost-a-pump as a safeguard in preparation for the higher boost levels and had Livernois update my tune to accommodate this change.

To be honest I would never run a 2.65 upper as I don't want my supercharger spinning that fast. The S/C is getting out of is efficiency range and it will generate a ton of heat that may not make much more HP over a 2.75 upper especially without an interchiller installed.

If you are so inclined to run a 2.65/9% combo I would recommend the same dual BAP on E85 and be sure to never run that setup on 91 octane gasoline.
 

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Sorry I am not from Cali as you had mentioned/hoped for but I will try to help by sharing my experience.

As you likely know, the psi boost you achieve will be greatly affected by your elevation. With that said my 9% IW lower, 2.85 upper on the same LMS s1025 package (non ported snout) produces 17.5 psi summer and 18 psi in the cooler fall weather. Currently I am installing a Livernois CNC ported S/C snout (along with FI thermal spacers/blanket) and they fully expect me to see 18.5-19 psi in cool temps on the same 9%/2.85 pulley combo. Note: I also have an interchiller system already installed.

So with a ported snout already, you must be at a higher elevation than myself to only be getting 16-17 psi boost or running a set of headers and no cats (though unlikely in Cali).

I would think you would see 17-18 psi with a 2.75 upper and would recommend that personally as you will still be good fuel wise with ID1300 injectors and the stock dual fuel pumps on E85.

Swapping to a 2.65 upper I would expect you to be in the same 18-19 psi range I may be at and pushing the limits of your fuel supply running E85. I just installed a Kenny Bell dual Boost-a-pump as a safeguard in preparation for the higher boost levels and had Livernois update my tune to accommodate this change.

To be honest I would never run a 2.65 upper as I don't want my supercharger spinning that fast. The S/C is getting out of is efficiency range and it will generate a ton of heat that may not make much more HP over a 2.75 upper especially without an interchiller installed.

If you are so inclined to run a 2.65/9% combo I would recommend the same dual BAP on E85 and be sure to never run that setup on 91 octane gasoline.
great info thanks.
I would like to add although not on my TH but on a Merc AMG we were experimenting with pulleys and I spun that thing pretty fast it launched very good and In my head it was faster. but taking it to the track the car would fall on its face about 3/4 way down and end up slower. it was smoking hot and killing the power.
E85 - meth - interchiller all these things would of helped for sure but I didnt have these things back then. if your gonna turn it up make sure you have all the parts that go with it or youll end up like my Merc.
 

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Sorry I am not from Cali as you had mentioned/hoped for but I will try to help by sharing my experience.

As you likely know, the psi boost you achieve will be greatly affected by your elevation. With that said my 9% IW lower, 2.85 upper on the same LMS s1025 package (non ported snout) produces 17.5 psi summer and 18 psi in the cooler fall weather. Currently I am installing a Livernois CNC ported S/C snout (along with FI thermal spacers/blanket) and they fully expect me to see 18.5-19 psi in cool temps on the same 9%/2.85 pulley combo. Note: I also have an interchiller system already installed.

So with a ported snout already, you must be at a higher elevation than myself to only be getting 16-17 psi boost or running a set of headers and no cats (though unlikely in Cali).

I would think you would see 17-18 psi with a 2.75 upper and would recommend that personally as you will still be good fuel wise with ID1300 injectors and the stock dual fuel pumps on E85.

Swapping to a 2.65 upper I would expect you to be in the same 18-19 psi range I may be at and pushing the limits of your fuel supply running E85. I just installed a Kenny Bell dual Boost-a-pump as a safeguard in preparation for the higher boost levels and had Livernois update my tune to accommodate this change.

To be honest I would never run a 2.65 upper as I don't want my supercharger spinning that fast. The S/C is getting out of is efficiency range and it will generate a ton of heat that may not make much more HP over a 2.75 upper especially without an interchiller installed.

If you are so inclined to run a 2.65/9% combo I would recommend the same dual BAP on E85 and be sure to never run that setup on 91 octane gasoline.
I appreciate the detailed share and will take your suggestions under advisement. I do have a suitcase muffler delete, and depending on where I drive in the Bay Area, I can find myself at sea level +- 100ft. Perhaps that can be the difference of a 1-2lbs of boost. I have used a BAP before on a (LS twin turbo setup) with great success and will consider that for this build as well. I will likely run the 2.75 upper with an inter chiller system and see what I gain. I'm also please to hear that these are tuning adjustments Livernois can make remotely, as I don't want to transport my jeep every-time or change tuners. I have been reading about builds online with similar mods making 20lbs, and am curious as to how reliable such a setup can be. I don't have to daily drive this car, but I often do.
 

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great info thanks.
I would like to add although not on my TH but on a Merc AMG we were experimenting with pulleys and I spun that thing pretty fast it launched very good and In my head it was faster. but taking it to the track the car would fall on its face about 3/4 way down and end up slower. it was smoking hot and killing the power.
E85 - meth - interchiller all these things would of helped for sure but I didnt have these things back then. if your gonna turn it up make sure you have all the parts that go with it or youll end up like my Merc.
Great insight, #Salute
 

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I appreciate the detailed share and will take your suggestions under advisement. I do have a suitcase muffler delete, and depending on where I drive in the Bay Area, I can find myself at sea level +- 100ft. Perhaps that can be the difference of a 1-2lbs of boost. I have used a BAP before on a (LS twin turbo setup) with great success and will consider that for this build as well. I will likely run the 2.75 upper with an inter chiller system and see what I gain. I'm also please to hear that these are tuning adjustments Livernois can make remotely, as I don't want to transport my jeep every-time or change tuners. I have been reading about builds online with similar mods making 20lbs, and am curious as to how reliable such a setup can be. I don't have to daily drive this car, but I often do.
I am at about 700' of altitude so if you are at only 0-100' above sea level I am confused why your boost is lower than mine unless you are getting major belt slip or you are getting boost bleed into your crankcase from the poor factory intake gaskets. Guessing you do not have the FI supercharger spacer plates then? I did not have any boost bleed but installing the spacers for better "intake gasket" sealing and increase the performance of my interchiller system.

Do you run a catch can? If so do you see a lot of oil inside when you check it? How about a check valved Metco oil fill breather, do you have one?

Either way a suitcase removal won't affect the boost level like headers can so lower boost is not from that.

Tuning note, I sent my ECM to Livernois for an operating system update (along with the BAP tune update) so I can upload future emailed tune updates myself using their My Calibrator touch controller instead of having to ship my ECM to them each time.
 
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