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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm new to tuning on the FCA Hellcat platform so I thought it would be fun to start a thread on things that I've had on other forced induction platforms. Most recently I've been driving a Nissan GT-R so I'm use to the Cobb AccessPort and EcuTek devices/software. So far on the FCA Hellcat I'm missing...


  1. Multiple maps, map switching - Ability to have an 91 octane, 93/94 octane and a 100 octane tune available and be able to on the fly flip between them. Why? Here in Canada 94 octane is only available from one distributor (PetroCanada) and only in certain provinces. I can get it here in Ontario but when I travel I often cant. I also have access to 100+ octane VIP racing fuels and would like to be able to have a "hot" tune for the occasional trip to the track.

  2. Visible knock sensor - Have some kind of visual indication that knock over a certain value is occuring. Can be any kind of indicator such as flashing the MIL light, causing some other guage to do something "strange" (i.e. the tach to flash, a guage on the center stack to flash, etc.). Why? Added safety margin for poor gas, someone putting the wrong gas in the wrong tank, seasonal variations and fuel quality, etc. If I can see it knocking I'll get out of it ASAP rather than not knowing and staying in it for a full pull

  3. Logging - Ability to log engine parameters to some storage medium for later review. Why? Lets you see what's going on from all those sensors you paid for and spotting abnormalities rather than waiting for something to break.

  4. Tune updates remotely - Ability to have tuner send an updated tune via email and then load it. Why? Coupled with the logging capability this makes a great way to have a tune "refined" for local conditions


A little on how these were implemented with the Cobb setup


  1. The code loaded to the ECU (PCM) by the Cobb had 9 tune slots. The cruise control buttons were used to move between the maps, and the boost gauge was used to show the current map. So for example I had map slot 1 was my 91 octane tune, map slot 2 was my 93 octane tune, slot 3 was my 100 octane tune and so on. To switch beween them I'd set the center stack to display the boost gauge, then with the cruise control off I'd press the "Cancel" button for the cruise control. Then I could use the cruise control + and - buttons to change to the next map slot or the previous map slot, and the boost guage position would change to show the slot # selected (boost slot one moved the boost gauge indicator to the first major tick on the gauge, slot two moved it to the second major tick, etc.). After I stopped pressing the + or - buttons for a few seconds the cruise control buttons reverted to their original purpose.

  2. Any time knock exceeded a certain value I had it set to cause the boost guage in the center display to flash

  3. The Cobb programmer plugged into the ODBII port and could be set to log up to 16 parameters in real time. Those could then be downloaded to a PC (USB conenction) in CSV format for analysis. So I'd log gear, RPM, engine load, ignition timing, trims, knock, boost, etc. and could then look at it later. Using that I spotted a fuel pump on its way out before I blew up the motor from an excessive lean condition (GT-Rs have two fuel pumps so it doesn't stop running when a single pump goes bad but it does go really lean and melts things when you do a long pull)

  4. The tune files could be uploaded from a PC to the Cobb programmer, then plugged into the ODBII port for flashing. Coupled with the logging this was a great way to get a tune "refined" (do a few pulls with logging on, send the logs to the tuner, get the tune touched up and sent back, rinse and repeat)



There looks to be the start of #1 already in the Demon; it has a button on the dash for "race gas". Not sure if that code is in our PCM somewhere or if it could be lifted from the Demon PCM. From the discussions here I don't think any of the tuners have looked at it (we have a few open "button slots" on the center stack, could add a "crap gas" switch for those who have access to 93 most of the time but occasionally may need to run 91 (for example)

#2 done through the PCM would require adding new code, and I don't know if the current "tuning" for the PCMs is actually changing any execution code or just updating static tables that they've found (i.e. ignition, injector, etc. mapping tables). On the Cobb and EcuTek platforms for the GT-R substantial pieces of the ECU execution code were re-written to support speed density tunes, etc. so doing the knock sensor display was just another code change. Alternatively Scott had suggested a 3rd party gauge as the knock value is an ODBII value that could be monitored (just need a way to display it).

From what I've read #3 and #4 are now harder with the "ODBII firewall" that's on the cars (need to get a clean CANBUS connection) and other protections that may now be there (i.e. not sure how much "validation" code is now in the factory software to detect changes (like the P1400 code we saw in another thread)).


Anyway, just some things that I think would be super useful to have as a conversation starter for others that people have found missing...
 

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I'm new to tuning on the FCA Hellcat platform so I thought it would be fun to start a thread on things that I've had on other forced induction platforms. Most recently I've been driving a Nissan GT-R so I'm use to the Cobb AccessPort and EcuTek devices/software. So far on the FCA Hellcat I'm missing...


  1. Multiple maps, map switching - Ability to have an 91 octane, 93/94 octane and a 100 octane tune available and be able to on the fly flip between them. Why? Here in Canada 94 octane is only available from one distributor (PetroCanada) and only in certain provinces. I can get it here in Ontario but when I travel I often cant. I also have access to 100+ octane VIP racing fuels and would like to be able to have a "hot" tune for the occasional trip to the track.

  2. Visible knock sensor - Have some kind of visual indication that knock over a certain value is occuring. Can be any kind of indicator such as flashing the MIL light, causing some other guage to do something "strange" (i.e. the tach to flash, a guage on the center stack to flash, etc.). Why? Added safety margin for poor gas, someone putting the wrong gas in the wrong tank, seasonal variations and fuel quality, etc. If I can see it knocking I'll get out of it ASAP rather than not knowing and staying in it for a full pull

  3. Logging - Ability to log engine parameters to some storage medium for later review. Why? Lets you see what's going on from all those sensors you paid for and spotting abnormalities rather than waiting for something to break.

  4. Tune updates remotely - Ability to have tuner send an updated tune via email and then load it. Why? Coupled with the logging capability this makes a great way to have a tune "refined" for local conditions


A little on how these were implemented with the Cobb setup


  1. The code loaded to the ECU (PCM) by the Cobb had 9 tune slots. The cruise control buttons were used to move between the maps, and the boost gauge was used to show the current map. So for example I had map slot 1 was my 91 octane tune, map slot 2 was my 93 octane tune, slot 3 was my 100 octane tune and so on. To switch beween them I'd set the center stack to display the boost gauge, then with the cruise control off I'd press the "Cancel" button for the cruise control. Then I could use the cruise control + and - buttons to change to the next map slot or the previous map slot, and the boost guage position would change to show the slot # selected (boost slot one moved the boost gauge indicator to the first major tick on the gauge, slot two moved it to the second major tick, etc.). After I stopped pressing the + or - buttons for a few seconds the cruise control buttons reverted to their original purpose.

  2. Any time knock exceeded a certain value I had it set to cause the boost guage in the center display to flash

  3. The Cobb programmer plugged into the ODBII port and could be set to log up to 16 parameters in real time. Those could then be downloaded to a PC (USB conenction) in CSV format for analysis. So I'd log gear, RPM, engine load, ignition timing, trims, knock, boost, etc. and could then look at it later. Using that I spotted a fuel pump on its way out before I blew up the motor from an excessive lean condition (GT-Rs have two fuel pumps so it doesn't stop running when a single pump goes bad but it does go really lean and melts things when you do a long pull)

  4. The tune files could be uploaded from a PC to the Cobb programmer, then plugged into the ODBII port for flashing. Coupled with the logging this was a great way to get a tune "refined" (do a few pulls with logging on, send the logs to the tuner, get the tune touched up and sent back, rinse and repeat)



There looks to be the start of #1 already in the Demon; it has a button on the dash for "race gas". Not sure if that code is in our PCM somewhere or if it could be lifted from the Demon PCM. From the discussions here I don't think any of the tuners have looked at it (we have a few open "button slots" on the center stack, could add a "crap gas" switch for those who have access to 93 most of the time but occasionally may need to run 91 (for example)

#2 done through the PCM would require adding new code, and I don't know if the current "tuning" for the PCMs is actually changing any execution code or just updating static tables that they've found (i.e. ignition, injector, etc. mapping tables). On the Cobb and EcuTek platforms for the GT-R substantial pieces of the ECU execution code were re-written to support speed density tunes, etc. so doing the knock sensor display was just another code change. Alternatively Scott had suggested a 3rd party gauge as the knock value is an ODBII value that could be monitored (just need a way to display it).

From what I've read #3 and #4 are now harder with the "ODBII firewall" that's on the cars (need to get a clean CANBUS connection) and other protections that may now be there (i.e. not sure how much "validation" code is now in the factory software to detect changes (like the P1400 code we saw in another thread)).


Anyway, just some things that I think would be super useful to have as a conversation starter for others that people have found missing...
with the GTR and Cobb tuning you can just "push" a button and swap tunes instant like that? no down loading etc? If so I have been living in the stone ages to long thats pretty cool.
 

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Regarding numbers 3 and 4. This is possible with HPTuners and their MPVI 2.

I log every trip to the dragstrip and digest the data once home. I share this with my tuner and we can evaluate how the car performed. We log over 30+ PIDs.

I also have 2 tunes which I load via the MPVI 2. One being pump fuel and the other E85 when I go racing.

And whilst I don't have a dedicated knock sensor, I do constantly watch my datalogging and watch KR. I'm reasonably lucky in that the quality of fuel (same garage) is very consistent and I know the tune very well and know what to look for.
 

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Tuning "wishlist"

Tuners are now coming out with switchable tunes via steering wheel buttons on this platform.

Hemituner (AJ ) out of NY, probably the most well known pioneer tuner for this platform, made the announcement first a few weeks back.

Craig brings up an excellent point .... gauges, notifications and failsafes.

They lack right now on this platform unless you go aftermarket/add-on.

Saved my bacon at least once, as I had a blue led dash light to signify 2nd fuel pump activation. Simple vacuum hose came off $5 hoobs switch, which in turn failed to light 50 cent blue led, which resulted in me not frying a $20k engine.

The biggest $$ spent isn’t always the best $$.








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Great thread OP. I am embarking on a S1025 build and would love to have the ability to monitor real time what is happening.

I am not looking at changing any parameters from the tune, just would like to find something similar to the Cobb on the GTR platfrom.
The ability to do partial WOT or even one WOT and look at parameters that would indicate something is not right would be invaluable. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
 

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If the tune is diablo sport, you can monitor via the trinity handheld unit, which has various in car mounts.

If HPT, the only option is right now is laptop, which is not a DD option at all really.
 

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If the tune is diablo sport, you can monitor via the trinity handheld unit, which has various in car mounts.

If HPT, the only option is right now is laptop, which is not a DD option at all really.


Why not? I daily drive mine and have the laptop in the glovebox for when needed. You don't have to log every single drive.
 

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Why not? I daily drive mine and have the laptop in the glovebox for when needed. You don't have to log every single drive.


If your interest is keeping an eye on certain parameters that can evaporate your motor quickly, or at least alert you when they get out of spec, it’s helpful to be out in the open and running 100% of the time .




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Could you use a tablet to run Hptuners? that and a hardware mount, might be the perfect solution for the guys making 1000 hp that want to datalog without any hassle.
 

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T

Saved my bacon at least once, as I had a blue led dash light to signify 2nd fuel pump activation. Simple vacuum hose came off $5 hoobs switch, which in turn failed to light 50 cent blue led, which resulted in me not frying a $20k engine.

The biggest $$ spent isn’t always the best $$.


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Had this also on an old SVT Lightning truck. Added a little LED to show aux fuel pump was "on" under a certain level of boost... worked wonders with the little Hobbs switch.
 

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Tuning "wishlist"

Had this also on an old SVT Lightning truck. Added a little LED to show aux fuel pump was "on" under a certain level of boost... worked wonders with the little Hobbs switch.


Life saver I never thought would be useful. Went wot, unusual progression of AF gauge caught my attention and then it hit me ... NO LIGHT!!

Got out of it immediately and went home to investigate.

Back to what I was saying above, at the very least 3 key components should always be in n your line of sight when we we are talking 700-800-900 whp builds... STKNK, oil press, and AF.

Without that info, you’re flying blind when you put your foot into it. Takes a very short time of wot to cause irreversible damage, especially in regard to stknk and af.




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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
with the GTR and Cobb tuning you can just "push" a button and swap tunes instant like that? no down loading etc? If so I have been living in the stone ages to long thats pretty cool.
Yes, that was a pretty cool feature that both Cobb and EcuTek had. No worries about having the tuner/laptop in the car "just in case", no sitting at the gas station for minutes trying to load up a different tune and hoping nothing screws up, no wearing out non-volatile storage on the ECU with frequent reflashing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Tuners are now coming out with switchable tunes via steering wheel buttons on this platform.

Hemituner (AJ ) out of NY, probably the most well known pioneer tuner for this platform, made the announcement first a few weeks back.

<snip>
Thanks Mike. Is the Hemituner stuff sold as a "tuner platform" (i.e. a shop like Livernois would be a "Hemituner licensed dealer", have in-depth tuning tools available for it and sell a "license" to their customers), or is it more of a "get a tune from AJ and you'll have it" kind of thing?
 

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Thanks Mike. Is the Hemituner stuff sold as a "tuner platform" (i.e. a shop like Livernois would be a "Hemituner licensed dealer", have in-depth tuning tools available for it and sell a "license" to their customers), or is it more of a "get a tune from AJ and you'll have it" kind of thing?


Good question, not sure.
His announcement was a brief one. My guess would be to nice he figures it out and releases it, other tuners will copy and do the same.


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